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STRUGGLE SESSION: Handsy Straight Guys, Happy Bi Guys, Horsey Myth Guys, and More!

I respond to comments from readers and listeners every Thursday. These posts are for Magnum Subscribers — so, if you’re already one of my subs, thank you and read on! If you’d like to join my subs, do it here! Magnum Subs get the Magnum Savage Lovecast (more guests, more calls, no ads), the Maxi Savage Love column (more Q, more A), the Sex & Politics podcast (recent episodes featured Tim Miller and Kat Rosenfield), Savage Love Live, Struggle Session, and bragging rights: you’re one of my subs!

As ever, we’re flying without a copy editor here — and I’m banging this out fast before hosting HUMP screenings tonight in Seattle — so if you spot a grammatical error or a dropped word, let me know in the comments and I’ll make the correction.


Says Monarc

Regarding the woman on Episode 904 who said she wanted to “make out” and then felt like her boundaries were being pushed by her date: it’s possible the...

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...gs tonight in Seattle — so if you spot a grammatical error or a dropped word, let me know in the comments and I’ll make the correction. Okay! Says Monarc… Regarding the woman on Episode 904 who said she wanted to “make out” and then felt like her boundaries were being pushed by her date: it’s possible the guy has a different understanding of that term. When I was younger, I thought “making out” covered a broad range of activities, including kissing, groping, necking, grinding — basically, everything short of oral sex & penetration. Sure, my college girlfriend ridiculed me for this understanding, and I have since learned that most people think of it as “passionate hugging & kissing.” I checked on the formal definition, and it’s got two: “to embrace and kiss passionately” as well as “to engage in heavy petting or sexual intercourse.” If the caller were to ask the guy what he thinks it means to “make out” it could be helpful in getting a sense of how inappropriate his actions were. The guy might be aware that “make out” has more than one possible definition/interpretation and ran with the definition/interpretation that served his ends instead of seeking clarity from the caller. So, asking him what he thinks “make out” means exactly might not provide the caller with the clarity she needs. Inspired Desires jumps in… Every time I was ever asked to make out — whether as a teenager or today — “heavy petting” was included. Not even included, practically demanded. I was a particularly shy and nerdy teenager, so generally it involved them putting my hands under their shirt or into their pants. For me, the fun of making out is pushing as close to sex as you can without tipping over. I honestly prefer making out when it isn’t going to lead to sex — the hands sliding just barely under clothes, grabbing, biting, sitting on my lap, laying down on the couch. It’s riding that edge that makes it so delicious! That being said, when the caller took her date’s hands out of her shirt, that was  a pretty unambiguous signal. On the other other hand, he stopped when he felt her tense up. I think he has potential, but the caller will need to be clear — vocally clear — about where her line is. Says Mars… I disagree with your response about the boundary pusher, Dan. This felt very similar to the circumstances of an assault that I went through. “Not yet” is still a “no,” and men need to be more attuned to hearing NO! The fact he was so pushy on a first interaction is a major red flag to me. Men putting their needs/wants/desires ahead of others is what sets the stage for abuse and should not be encouraged. When it comes to consent, everyone should practice FRIES: freely given, reversible, informed, enthusiastic, specific. I’m sorry you were assaulted under similar circumstances, Mars, and I absolutely agree that “not yet” is a “no” unless and until a “yeah now” has been issued. There are definitely men out there — and some non-men out there — willing to exploit ambiguous situations and/or definitions to get what they want, Mars, and that may have happened here. Still, I don’t think it would be crazy for the caller to give this man — a man she liked and enjoyed spending time with and had a good feeling — another chance. She should speak to him about her concerns regarding their last make out session and be clear about her boundaries going into their next make out session. If he honors her unambiguously stated boundaries going forward, maybe it was a misunderstanding about the meaning of “make out” and the boy can be trusted. But no third chances. Says Chipernator… I just wanted to add that, in addition to discriminatory housing laws being in place in places like the east/west coast and traditionally red states, there are laws on the books in the midwest, as well. The city of Milwaukee has a purportedly anti-brothel law banning the housing of more than three non-blood related individuals residing in the same domicile, dating back to the 1850s. It has never been repealed and is seldom enforced, but still serves to add further strain on the rental market, as well as suppress housing opportunities for people in the queer community seeking to live with chosen family instead of blood family. As we saw in Wisconsin after the Dobbs decision came down, social conservatives are itching to enforce stupid, regressive, and archaic laws that remain on the books — laws barring access to abortion, laws against cohabitation, laws banning birth control, laws barring access to “obscene materials,” laws against sodomy (gay and straight). Some great advice from Mathis and Lea… I think Dan you are spot on with the man’s worry about sex only in the shower with his wife. I was immediately struck by his describing the door closed and alone together talking and washing each other and then sex. Just bring that aspect of the foreplay into a different room. A chair in your bedroom. Let her sit as you talk and massage her feet and legs. At the start, your naked, she’s not. Encourage her to take control. Ask her to tell you what she wants as you massage her. Says Belinda from Brooklyn via Instagram… The guy whose wife only wanted to have sex in the shower — the part of her body she’s self-conscious about might be self-perceived cleanliness and body smells/tastes. So if the husband declares that from now on they’ll have sex everywhere BUT the shower, that might make his wife feel uncomfortable. Women are often raised to be self conscious about odors (as well as pretty much everything else), and a woman’s body odor (including vaginal discharge) can change postpartum. Great point, Belinda. So, maybe the rule for now should be — a temporary rule to break this couple out of their rut — should be “start in the shower, finish in the kitchen.” Or the bedroom or the basement or the attic or the car or the office or the nearest truck stop bathroom… BiDanFan weighs in on the Goldilocks dilemma faced by some bisexual men (which I unpacked in last week’s Struggle Session): I think there are more “just right” women out there than you think, Dan. Sure, there are some bi women who hypocritically have a problem with their male partners also being bi, but I would think (or hope!) these are a minority. And bi women vastly outnumber bi men, so he should be easily able to find someone who neither fetishizes nor abhors his orientation, but shares it. Also, many straight polyamorous women would be fine with their partner shagging others regardless of gender. The trick in either case may be that the female partner in question would expect the usual adherence straight and bi people tend to have to safer sex practice in ENM settings. But if he’s willing to accept condom use as a price of admission, his pool of Goldilocks should be out there and not that difficult to find. My sample, as I always need to remind myself, is hopelessly skewed. I hear from people with problems. So, I get letters from bi guys who got dumped by bi women who didn’t wanna date bi men (a problem!) but I don’t get letters from bi guys dating bi women who didn’t dump them for being bi (no problem!). Still, I have heard from tons of bi men over the years who were dumped by bi women just because they were bi guys — and while the women who dumped them represent a tiny minority of bi women (and here’s hoping they do), the fact that so many bi guys are afraid to come out to their bi girlfriends is evidence that these problematic bi women punch above their weight. But even if I’m willing to concede there are “just right” options out there for heteroromantic bi men like our caller  — women who aren’t “too hot” (women who don’t fetishize male bisexuality), women aren’t too cold (women who don’t despise male bisexuality), women who are instead “just right” (women who neither fetishize nor despise) — we can’t dismiss the very real possibility that the caller is in love with this “too hot” woman and would rather marry her (and work on this) than dump her (and start over and possibly wind up with no woman at all — hot, cold, or just right). Says Adam via email… Cis male in PNW. This idea has been brewing for awhile. I travel around rural areas of my state and I see so many houses with all the Trump flags. I want to send these properties post cards with notes like, “Please get tested because of unprotected anal sex!”, and, “The blow job was amazing and can’t wait to do it again!” The only reason I don’t is because I fear someone in the house would be abused over it. In this house we believe you probably shouldn’t send those postcards — but in this house we understand why you would be sorely tempted. And from R via email… I wanted to make sure you were aware of the latest conservative Christian tea. My wife (an ex-Mormon) follows this stuff with high levels of schadenfreude. Anyway, there’s a conservative Christian pastor in Austin named Aaron Ivey who (SHOCK) was recently fired after getting caught carrying on gay affairs. There is some alleged abuse in there as well, which always adds a dark edge to these things, and is of course abhorrent. The enjoyable part of this is that Aaron’s wife, Jamie, is a self-help Christian influencer who has held up her marriage as a model for others. She just released a book and the day her book tour was slated to start is when the news of her husband’s gay sex scandal broke. The title of that book is a thing of ironic beauty: Why Can’t I Get It Together? It’s even better when you include the subtitle: Why Can’t I Get It Together? Kick Unrealistic Expectations to the Curb and Rest in God’s Truth. Jamie no doubt expected her husband to keep his dick out of other men’s mouths… Says Mads via Instagram… AI image generators can’t draw centaurs — and I KNOW how much YOU love centaurs, Dan! P.S. So, like, is centaur love a deeply human concept? Is it a core aspect of our being that AI struggles to grasp? Not have enough data? Should we flood it with more examples? Should we start asking our lovers to prove they’re not robots by drawing a centaur? OMG, it’s true — no, wait. I don’t love centaurs. That’s not true. People assume I’m into centaurs because I mention centaurs whenever the subject of sex robots come up. (The sex bots, when they arrive, are going to make currently unrealizable and impossible sexual fantasies — like fantasies about mythical beasts — realizable, possible, and very, very profitable.) For the record: I do not have a thing for centaurs — not that there’s anything wrong with having a thing for centaurs, some of my best friends (I presume) have things for centaurs, and if Centaur Troye Sivan came to me in a dream, I wouldn’t kick him out of my night kitchen. But I do not have a “thing,” as things are commonly understood, for centaurs. Anyway, if you have a thing for centaurs, dear reader, and you’re searching for a little centaur porn to tide you over while you wait — and wait and wait and wait (where are the sex robots we were promised?!?) — AI image generators won’t be much help as they can’t seem to generate/steal images of centaurs. Some genuine nightmare fuel here. And finally… our Muppet-Faced Man of the Week: Gideon Glick! Okay, Gideon doesn’t have one of those classic Muppet faces. But I had a Muppet-level crush on him before listening to him on That’s a Gay Ass Podcast and now it’s much, much worse.

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