Struggle Session: Sexual Scripts & Maintenance Sex, Splooge Everywhere, Exceptions for Snooping, Spanks But No Spanks

.... TEARS, a longtime reader, was trapped in a sexless marriage. Her husband wouldn’t fuck her or communicate with her about why he didn’t want to fuck her. TEARS tried everything — almost — to revive their sex life: talking about it, “rewriting the sexual script” (spicing things up, suggesting non-PIV options), urging her husband to get ED meds, and finally dragging him to couples’ counseling. None of the things she tried worked, so TEARS left her husband. But there was one thing she didn’t try: getting sex elsewhere. Says Lori Watts: I think Dan missed something big in the first letter: the problem wasn’t JUST lack of sex; it was lack of communication about sex. Once the need to communicate about sex was lifted, the LW & their ex got along just fine. But the success of any accommodation around sex with others is gonna rest heavily on communication about sex! These two just had no path forward since that was the obstacle. TEARS didn’t have to leave to stop communicating with her husband about sex. She could’ve accepted that their marriage was sexless, asked for an accommodation, or done what she needed to do to stay married and stay sane. Yes, TEARS said she didn’t want to cheat — but she also didn’t want to go without sex or get a divorce. If ethical non-monogamy wasn’t for TEARS, and if unethical non-monogamy (which I didn’t suggest to. TEARS but have in the past) also wasn’t for her, then getting a divorce was the right choice for TEARS. Says SloMoPoMo: She’s worn down and psychologically gutted by years of no resolution to her husband not wanting to fuck her. She regrets staying — that’s actually her signature! — so some way to stay may not have been the answer. All that said, we and she have NO IDEA what would have happened in an alternate universe where she negotiated an open option years ago, before all the rot set in. Maybe it would’ve worked fine. We’ll never know. People aren’t fungible. Some just aren’t cut out for poly or ENM, but there’s really only one way to find out. Agreed. Says Dashing: I’m sorta in a similar position as TEARS. My wife and I are in our 50s, 2 kids, home, overall good lifestyle. Since hitting menopause my wife’s libido has changed. Her sex drive has plummeted to once in a blue moon. At first I was pressuring her for sex, almost like a teenager. Once I realized what was going on I stopped trying to guilt trip her. Now we sleep together and still do things like date nights, but I don’t have the expectation of sex and it’s been going on for months. We discussed opening up the marriage but she’s against it. In our past we’ve done threesomes & we both decided it wasn’t worth the effort after our oldest was born. This summer she’s spending over six weeks traveling with our kids but I’m not going. I’ve decided that this is my opportunity to find a summer fling and be an adulterer. I’ve even booked an escort. In my mind, I’ve rationalized my wife’s tacit approval. I’m going with the premise that she doesn’t want sex with me so it’s not like I’m taking anything away from her. I’m not “cheating” her of sex. Holy shit it’s amazing how I can justify anything! Says Yurilover: I have always thought that hinging such a huge commitment as marriage, which often involves a shared living situation, children, emotional and domestic labor, finances, and social pressure to stay married from family and friends, to the expectation that sex should be monogamous, is a frankly terrifying concept to all those whose libidos do not match their partner’s in either direction, those whose libidos could change (so everyone, especially as we age) those who no longer desire their partner or those who no longer or never desired sex at all. The expectation rather than true desire of regular sex comes from the expectation that one’s spouse belongs to the husband/wife (historically just the husband of course). Decoupling romance from monogamous sex is something necessary to prevent both sexual needs not being fulfilled as well as marital rape. Married people including people who desire sex/have a libido NEED to listen to Dan/other activists such as the asexual community on this. Not only to prevent forced celibacy, but also marital and relationship rape, which are rampant. I totally agree that married people need to listen to me — that goes double for the married person I’m married to — but I want to make a distinction here. While marital rape is definitely a thing… and a terrible thing that wasn’t a criminal thing in all 50 states until 1993… maintenance sex is also a thing. Going through the motions to please your partner or spouse is a choice some people make — it’s a kind of sex that some people freely consent to. There are lots of reasons people choose to have sex and sometimes people choose to have sex to make someone else happy. (Or shut someone else up.) And maintenance sex is not rape. (It’s not always a one-way street either.) Says Coolie: I totally relate to TEARS. Nearly 30 year marriage, at one point sexless or nearly. We put in the effort and got back to a fairly good place. We even tried non-monogamy, which I liked and she didn’t. Then she began to have some serious mental issues and things eventually fell apart. It got to a place where I suggested therapy and she said no. I went by myself. That was the end. I was miserably unhappy and so was she. But like LW1’s husband, she wasn’t willing to smash the self-destruct button. I had to call it. I’ve never been happier. The clouds parted. And then I discovered… we still got along pretty well. We can still be co-parents to our grown kids without rancor. We can still be friendly, if not friends. So, non-monogamy isn’t a cure all, but it was worth a shot — not to fix the marriage or even stay married, but just to leave no stone unturned. Says LarryStone007: Looking for sex is time consuming. People with kids and jobs and a house to take care of don’t have a ton of time. I see a lot of fights about priorities and use of time. (“The house isn’t clean and you’re swiping on tinder!” “We have no groceries because you had to go see Julia!”) I think it would only work if both people were interested in casual sex relationships. I don’t think that’s super rare but I don’t think it’s common. Kids, work, a house to take care of — logistical challenges whether a couple is practicing ENM or one half of a couple is practicing UNM. But getting a divorce and establishing separate households and shuffling kids between them presents logistical challenges, too. Dating someone else might not be possible if a sexless married couple with kids decides to stay married — particularly for couples who want to remain socially monogamous — but releasing each other from “marriage expectations” can defuse a conflict that could metastasize and rot out the core of a marriage, as TEARS put it. And even a person isn’t getting it elsewhere currently, just knowing they’re allowed to seize the opportunity if the opportunity presents itself can make going without more bearable. Living in hope > living in nope. Says BiDanFan: Dan also missed the “I now suspect he wanted out but couldn’t do the ‘end it’ bit, so I had to be the bad guy.” If Mr. TEARS didn’t want the relationship to continue, then TEARS seeking down-low lovers wouldn’t have solved the actual problem, which was Mr. TEARS wanting to move on but not having the ovaries to say so. It would have just created a situation where she would have been an even worse bad guy for seeking to end the monogamous commitment. That’s correct — worse yet, if Mr. TEARS was trying to force Mrs. TEARS to end the marriage, if he wanted out but wanted her to be the bad guy, he would’ve ginned up some other conflict to force her hand if she had come to terms with their marriages being a companionate one. But we don’t know what Mr. TEARS would’ve done if Mrs. TEARS had issued an ultimatum and/or given herself permission to remain in her sexless marriage without settling for a sexless life. And over on Twitter… I’ve been reading you for 15 yrs, but oh wow. This hits home. Thank you, Dan, for everything you do. It’s seriously life saving shit. — Sunshine, MPH 🏳️‍🌈🌊🔭🔬☣ (@CallSignWhisker) June 20, 2023 Sounds good in theory but even the partners without sex drive would probably get jealous, no? Do you have examples of this working out? — Alex Lee (@AlexJacLee) June 20, 2023 I’ve heard from plenty of couples over the years who downshifted (or upgraded?) to companionate marriages and things wound up working out — with “working out” here defined as, “Even if the transition was bumpy and painful, they were happy they stayed together in the end.” As for cases where one partner is not only no longer interested in sex but is also unwilling to work on it or even talk about it, that person doesn’t have a right to be jealous if and/or when their sex-starved partner goes and gets it elsewhere. If the person who was “done” with sex feels anything at all, they should feel relieved they’re being asked for sex. A minor quibble… FYI on a minor part of that letter: I don’t think ‘unalive’ is something people actually say in real conversations. Far as I can tell, it’s a phrase that only gets used on youtube videos because words like murder, suicide etc. get videos demonetized. Same with SA instead of rape. — Greggory Basore (Pronounced Bay-Soar) (@GreggoryBasore) June 21, 2023 And yet here it is, being used by an actual person in a real conversation. Language grows, evolves, morphs, and changes. Lovecast listeners were horrified by the call from the mother who couldn’t get her 13-year-old boy to stop jizzing in common areas of the house. Says Kate via email… I have a quick question for the mom of the 13 year old leaving surprise presents in public places around the home. I am wondering if her son has either ADHD or is on the spectrum. If so, he may struggle with object permanence and forget that the remnants of his self-exploration was left on the couch. I would recommend that mom says that behavior is only done in private places such as the bedroom or shower and make that a hard line. It sounds like she gave him the option of doing this on the couch as long as he cleaned it up, but my guess is the video game or TV ended up being more exciting and, “I’ll clean this up later,” turned into.  “Oh shiz! Mom is home!”  And if it happened once and then happened again weeks later, that means he has been cleaning up but he got distracted and forgot. But the caller has every right to be upset and grossed out! My followers on Facebook also jumped into the fray. Says Laura… I am just cherishing these last precious years until my 9-year-old son hits puberty. God help me, he’s gross enough as it is, finding his spooge around the house might just do me in. Says Teana… No one said anything about condoms! If he’s learning to pleasure himself, then tell him to do so with a condom on! Then when it comes time to have sex, he’ll be used to using condoms! Teaching safe-sex practice is IMPORTANT otherwise you’re going to have a STI-ridden son who’s out there popping his seed into every female (assuming he’s straight) and creating a whole bunch of grand babies! (Love the show, Dan!) Your son’s jizz everywhere or his used condoms everywhere — I’m having a hard time deciding which is the worse option here. Says Victoria… Most of y’all are way nicer and more trusting than I am. I guarantee that if there’s jizz on the couch pillows, there’s jizz in other inappropriate places, too. Mom needs to get onto Amazon and next day a freaking black light. And that’s just for starters. Because if there’s jizz in her bedroom, which is likely if this is a kink, if I were her I’d unleash unholy hellfire. A woman suspected her husband might be bi-curious and might be cheating on her with men. He denied and insisted that pot is making her paranoid. My Facebook followers had a variety of opinions. Says Douglas… Snooping is never warranted. If you feel you can’t trust someone, it’s time to go. I’ll say it again: Snooping is always wrong… except when you find something you had a right to know and/or something it would’ve been dangerous for you not to know, e.g., the person you’re having unprotected sex with in the context of a monogamous relationship is having unprotected sex with others. (I unpacked/restated my feelings about snooping at greater length in this 2021 column.) Says Jamie… I don’t what the caller saw is necessarily signs of cheating, but the caller’s husband may be experimenting and wanting privacy for now about it. But he should ask for some space in that and be upfront IMHO, because otherwise it absolutely looks shady. Says Tanya… Nope. If you cannot trust your partner then move on. If you are actively looking for things to justify your gut feelings go talk to your partner. But remember the answer may not be the comfy one that fits your narrative. Trusting your gut is important — but our guts don’t get it right 100% of the time. That’s why checking in with our partners is important… before checking back in with our guts and maybe running the situation through the guts of a trusted friend or two. But I don’t think, “If you ever feel like you can’t trust your partner, end it,” is good advice. (I realize that’s not exactly what Tanya is saying here, but Douglas comes close.) Sometimes our insecurities get the better of us and we come to doubt someone who has done nothing wrong. Paraphrasing Reagan: Trust your gut, but verify. Steven doesn’t think what the boyfriend is doing here rises to the level of gaslighting… “Gaslighting” means “trying to make someone believe they’re crazy.” It’s a wonderful term that comes from the movie (drumroll) “Gaslight.” The guy isn’t “gaslighting” the questioner; he’s (just) “lying to her and trying to not get caught to avoid being forced to face the consequences.” And finally… i would love to see you and pull your pants down and lay you over my knee and spank your bare butt so hard with my hand on your bottom over my knee and spank you so good when can we do this dan Never — not because I’m opposed to a good spanking (although I am no spanko). It’s just that I don’t know who the fuck you are. Also, while I might be willing to go there for someone I truly cared about — for all the reasons Dr. Amy Muise lays out in her research into the Benefits of Communal Sexual Motivation, aka, being GGG — I could never care about someone who couldn’t be bothered to properly punctuate a request like this.