On Thursdays I share a question from a reader and do my best to sit on my hands and let my readers give the advice. But first, some feedback…
Hey, Dan! In reference to the sexless marriage messages you get all the time, I just thought I would share this. Cis het male married to a cis het female. We’ve been together almost twenty years. Over time, sex dwindled way down. Not much I could do to get her in the mood. Recently she was diagnosed with a brain tumor. Tumor has been removed and her sex drive has been restored and then some. Point is, it could be medical and it’s important to get medical check ups including eyes. (That’s how my wife’s tumor was found.)
I’m going to crawl out on a limb and say that undiagnosed brain tumors come low on the list of causes where sexless marriages are concerned… but if you’ve tried everything else and nothing has worked, maybe get that brain scan?
Lengthy email from Elizabeth…
I am a long time listener of your show/podcast, former reader of your news column back in the day. I really enjoy your advice and your take on all things sex. I am troubled recently though by what appears to be your wholesale endorsement of marital infidelity for those who find themselves in sexless marriages. Please allow me to share my story.
Back when I was in high school, my mother began what became a years long affair with a married man. They met through a music group to which they both belonged. I became aware of the affair early on. My mother wasn’t particularly skilled at concealing it, at least not from me. My father, to the best of my knowledge, never knew what was happening. I remember feeling very confused, conflicted and even angry about my mother’s extra curricular activities. While I recognized that my father was a very troubled and unpleasant person and that their marriage was joyless, I did not like being in the position of keeping this secret. My mother threatened to cut me off if I revealed the affair. It was a huge emotional burden. Her lover claimed to be in a likewise sexless marriage, but didn’t want to “break up his family.” Thankfully, I graduated high school, went to college, established my own life and tried not to think about it any further. I did extract a promise from my mother that I would never have to meet or speak with her lover for any reason.
Flash forward 31 years. My father has died and, a year later, my mother’s lover is a widower. They decide to marry. So, if I want to continue to have a relationship with my mother, I must engage with the man who caused me so much emotional turmoil for so long.
Honestly, Dan, I made an effort to accept and get to know this man. But it turns out, my mother has consistently terrible taste in romantic partners. He is a different variety of difficult but he is nonetheless unappealing, somewhat creepy, and dishonest. And, eight years on, he demonstrates zero willingness to positively engage with me or my children. Because of this, my mother and I see one another very infrequently and, honestly, I resent it. I resent the entire circumstance that we find ourselves in and I resent him. I would have been happy for my mother to divorce my father back in the day & find her happiness elsewhere. Or, once my father passed, I would have been thrilled for her to find a genuinely nice man to marry and live out her golden years. But this?‘This is awful.‘Oh. And, I should mention that my mother’s second husband somehow managed to conceal the affair from his children. So, they were never subjected to the drama I endured.‘To wrap this up, based on my experience, I would argue that infidelity in response to a sexless marriage can produce a lot of collateral damage that may not be immediately obvious to anyone on the outside. Much unnecessary hurt results. So, even if negotiating an open marriage or initiating a divorce seems like an insurmountable or impossible choice, it is the more honest and honorable course of action. The secret infidelity route only demonstrates a tremendous lack of character in both parties.‘Thank you for time. And, I look forward to listening to “Savage Love” for years to come.
Savage advised adult sons to stop acting as “moral police” and instead “run interference” for their mother, who was having an affair to escape an emotionally abusive marriage. Savage argued that since the sons witnessed their father’s abusive behavior, their loyalty should lie with the mother’s happiness rather than upholding the sanctity of a toxic marriage.
I’m a late-40s happily married monogamous AFAB woman breeder. I have a request for the man who gave santorum a whole new wonderful meaning in which I delight.
Can you please help me develop and evangelize broadly a low-risk customary signal for friendly people like myself who aren’t looking for sex with other people that communicates: “Yes I’m chatty and friendly but I’m not looking for sex with you (or anyone) so please don’t hit on me, k?”
At various points in my life, with fairly regular frequency, I’ve been caught off guard by an unwanted romantic or sexual overture from someone I considered a platonic friend or acquaintance. Men and women both. Sober and intoxicated both. Unmarried and married (wearing an obvious wedding band) both.
During my married life, all of them came from people who knew my relationship status and my husband. Some of the overtures have been from folks in open relationships, some have been from single people (less likely cause I have my guard up a bit more), and some from cheaters.
Almost universally I found conversation or an activity with the person intellectually or socially interesting, so they were correctly picking up on a real “I like you as a friend” vibe. But too often my signal seems to get mistaken for an “I’d like to blow your genitalia” vibe. Most were NOT my type sexually, so at least from my end, I wasn’t unconsciously transmitting a “fuck you’re tempting” signal.
I’m a friendly, accepting, open-minded, and definitely TMI person by nature. According to others I’m conventionally attractive and have sex appeal. So some would say I shouldn’t be surprised. However, my husband is all the same things to approximately the same degree. Yet this “overture from friends” doesn’t happen to him with nearly the frequency that it does to me, especially in recent years. When it did happen, it was almost always a gay man before we got married and he started wearing the ring.
After the most recent overture this morning, I discussed it with him and he agrees that he is no less friendly/chatty/outgoing than me. In fact, he might well be more flirtatious with men and women both. He’s most certainly less compliant with HR rules designed to prevent sexual harassment. He agrees that the problem likely stems from tired gender tropes where all men chat/flirt and aren’t taken seriously but only promiscuous, sexually hungry women chat/flirt and are “asking for it.”
Obviously, when the overture happens, I use my words and turn them down. But usually it creates some awkwardness for the friendship cause (1) they are embarrassed or butt hurt, (2) I feel a little weird continuing to hang out with someone who made a sexual overture since my husband and I chose (and continue to choose) monogamy, and (3) if a cheater, I’ve lost some respect for them since they lie. Usually the relationship fades out, which is a shame, cause like I said, I felt a platonic connection to the person.
I should add one more reason I think such a social cue is necessary related to gender equity. Back in my younger days, when I worked in a male-dominated field, I also sometimes had to accept the career consequences if the overture came from a friend in my professional network. In that scenario, sometimes the overture came through an intermediary. Like the time my research advisor tried to hook me up with his angel investor who I enjoyed as a platonic friend but not more. Perhaps it goes without saying, but the kind of men who think it’s a good idea to hit on you at work also get butt hurt and sometimes vengeful when you turn them down.
I realize that particularly in a town with many open marriages, my wedding ring and marital status carries more ambiguity than it might have in decades past. I totally understand and accept that for many people it’s a “maybe not” (or “maybe yes”) not a “definitely no” and I’m OK with that. Times and customs change and that’s cool with me. I’m happy for those married poly people to poly to their hearts’ content.
But I think folks like me (and people like my younger unmarried female self, and permanently or temporarily asexual people) could use a new custom to signal “definitely no to sex” to replace the wedding ring. That’s why I’m writing to you.
So first: a question to avoid recreating the wheel. I understand from gay friends (and reading your column over the years) that the majority of gay marriages between two men are open to some degree such that a wedding ring on a gay man is culturally akin to a “maybe yes” not a “definitely no.”
If that understanding is correct: is there a “definitely no” customary signal from that community to counteract the “maybe yes” default expectation? If so, could it be adapted more broadly to breeders and asexual folk?
If not, since talking early,often, and adoringly about my husband doesn’t seem to do the trick, can you suggest a social convention that works for both open and closed relationships?This might be crazy, but here’s my proposal for a “definitely no” social signal. I would happily wear a second ring on the ring finger of the non-wedding hand and call it my “no thanks” ring. In the US that would be the right hand, but in some countries, it would be the left. And if anyone asked me about that ring or complimented me on it, I would gush on about how my husband bought it for me and describe why and how I love it and him very much.
Obviously I don’t know why they are commenting on the jewelry: maybe it’s cause they want to buy it or maybe they want to get in my pants. Frequently people compliment each other on jewelry but I seldom detect or infer any sexual intent behind the question.
But if the person was trying to investigate my openness to a sexual overture, the mention of my dedication to my husband could be the implicit “definitely no: don’t hit on me” information they need to avoid future awkwardness. If they were too chicken shit to ask themselves they could even get an intermediary to comment on the ring for them, like it’s middle school or something.
The response to a “no thanks” ring inquiry could be tailored to the wearer and the inquirer. Like if you’re single and asexual, you could say something like, “I bought it for myself as a symbol of my autonomy and self-love and I adore the design and the life it represents.” Or if the wearer is single and just tired of being hit on at work, but fancies a particular inquiring person, they could say something like, “I bought it for myself to express my independence and my career focus but I might be happy to share more with you about that independence later.”
What do you think of my proposal?
Not Open2 Poly Experiences
Advice for NOPE? Thoughts on her proposed universal sign for married-and-monogamous? Drop it in the comments…